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RogueratDecember 30th, 2013, 12:58 pm
Posts: 472		I watched the C-dun video suggested by Martinlf, then tried the technique shown to tie an Iso pattern. Results were much better than my previous efforts, the only snag was breaking 6/0 thread. The next attempt I used flat-waxed nylon (from my Bass-bug inventory) to tie down and flare the hair, then switched to 6/0 for the rest of the abdomen and thorax. Much better, with a few more practice flies I think I'll have this one figured out!

Tight lines to all, and a Happy New Year!

Roguerat

I Peter 5:7 'Cast your cares upon Him...'
RogueratDecember 30th, 2013, 1:06 pm
Posts: 472		oops, this post was supposed to be under 'tips, materials, and techniques'.
EntomanDecember 30th, 2013, 5:32 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604		No worries, Roguerat. Thanks for the heads up - I moved it to the proper category.

BTW - sounds like you are trying to use too much hair, the wrong kind, or both. You should not have to use bass/saltwater thread. 6/0 is more than enough on medium sized flies and 8/0 works better on small ones. 3/0 monocord works for the bigger drakes where using smaller thread to avoid bulk is not as big a deal. More wraps of smaller thread will hold the hair better anyway and your wings will be far less likely to twist around. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but ever notice how multiple light wraps of a rubber band will quickly build up enough pressure to turn your finger tip purple? Save your A thread for big jobs.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
MartinlfDecember 30th, 2013, 6:40 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3233		Entoman makes a good point; in addition, it sometimes takes practice to get just the right thread tension. Something else you might try is using Veevus thread. Its 6/0 is incredibly strong, and Veevus 8/0 is comparable to 6/0 Unithread in strength. It comes in multiple sizes too, down to 16/0.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
RogueratDecember 30th, 2013, 8:43 pm
Posts: 472		I'm using Hareline Dubbin comparadun hair, it flares well under tension and I think it's doing what it's supposed to...but any suggestions here would be great.
I'll admit I've got a ways to go on managing thread tension and break-off with finer thread. Coming from a hair-bug background, I tend to torque down when flaring hair; tying C-duns is going to take some practice. I'll take Entoman's advice and work with 3/0 since these early attempts are sz 12 patterns- then work down into the smaller sizes and 6/0, etc.

'Personal Best' note here, I tied a sz 22 Trico today; a friend said I'll never find the fly on the water, but I still wanted to see if I could do it.

Sincere thanks for the advice and insights,

Roguerat

I Peter 5:7 'Cast your cares upon Him...'
EntomanDecember 30th, 2013, 9:29 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604		I'm a firm believer that applying maximum thread tension is the best way to ensure quality durable ties. Head cement and other glues are often employed to cover for faulty technique, resulting in heavy and often clumsy looking flies. When learning a new thread, breakage is fairly common until you have a good feel for its limits. If tyros aren't breaking thread at times, they aren't pushing that limit as they should to acquire the "feel" and enhance their skills. Super strong threads present a problem in that they are often too strong for the task at hand thus hindering the development of proper technique. They can cut materials (especially hollow hair) quite easily with excess tension. Unless the tier has honed skills, the usual result is backing off too much resulting in loose, less durable flies. Standard strength thread (like Danville's) will break before too much tension is applied. If you do break it, all you have to do is re-tie the thread as the wing will most likely still be in place. This is a much easier problem to deal with than exploding hair off the hook or loose wings! :)

My personal favorite for 10 to 16 hair wing flies is 8/0 Uni. It ties with the same approx. strength and bulk as 6/0 Danville's but it has much less stretch and its bonded texture grips hair better. This provides easier, more accurate placement and hold (less tendency to roll) while finishing the fly.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
RogueratDecember 30th, 2013, 10:09 pm
Posts: 472		Ditto on super-strength threads- I tried Kevlar thread some years ago and it sliced through deer hair like a razor. I guess the stuff has its place, but I won't use it again.

Back to the tying bench, a cold one, and some Classical to set the mood...just right!
Which begs the question, to what music do other tyers listen while at the bench? I shuttle between Classical, Delta Blues, and Big Band/Swing.

Roguerat

I Peter 5:7 'Cast your cares upon Him...'
EntomanDecember 31st, 2013, 6:05 am
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604		Classic Rock, Sinatra. Mozart & Beethoven are for reading. :)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
MartinlfDecember 31st, 2013, 12:31 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3233		Good points about super-strong threads. Veevus is not a GSP, and the comparaduns I've tied with it came out OK. It is very good for avoiding bulk, and it can be broken, but it takes a bit more oomph to do it. If you haven't tried it, it may be worth a go, at least for some applications. It's especially useful in the smaller sizes for parachutes if you to tie off the hackle underneath on the post: it doesn't build up bulk there.This works well for Trico parachutes.

http://veevus.dk/content/6-breaking-strength
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
RogueratDecember 31st, 2013, 4:31 pm
Posts: 472		Re: Veevus tying thread, the local Cabela's just started carrying this type, think I'll drop on by and get a spool or three this week.

Just for grins, I tied an extended-body, Compara Dun Hex on a sz 8 short-shank hook this morning...to Verdi's Nabucco, with the volume cranked on 'Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves.' Things are coming together!

Have a Happy New, one and all,

Roguerat

I Peter 5:7 'Cast your cares upon Him...'

GutcutterJanuary 1st, 2014, 7:51 pm
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
...Just for grins, I tied an extended-body, Compara Dun Hex on a sz 8 short-shank hook this morning...to Verdi's Nabucco, with the volume cranked on 'Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves.'...

Funny. I tied a dozen and a half baetis sparkle duns to "Forty Licks" disc 2.
Losing my touch...
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
OldredbarnJanuary 3rd, 2014, 7:12 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2608
Funny. I tied a dozen and a half baetis sparkle duns to "Forty Licks" disc 2.
Losing my touch...


:) For me it's usually Charles Mingus, "Mingus, Mingus, Mingus", or The Stooges', "I Want to Be Your Dog"...:)

Seriously...I think, when it comes to the trusty, durable, compara-dun, you should dial in the tying videos on the Blue Ribbon Flies site, and watch Craig Matthews tie his Sparkle Dun version of it. Yes there is some need for torque but not that much really. I used to break a great deal when I would build up the dam in front of the wing, only to have the wing not stay up when I was ready to fish it.

Matthews lifts his wing material up in thirds and places wraps at each of these spots and then the dam in front. A very durable process when done right and you aren't cranking the bejesus out of your thread. The wing stays put.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood

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