Troutnut.com Fly Fishing for Trout Home
User Password
or register.
Scientific name search:

> > Black Quills



MartinlfJune 7th, 2013, 11:57 am
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3233
Two more bug questions.

1. On a PA limestone black quills of many sizes have manifested themselves this season. In early May, there were size 12 or 14 bugs on the water, and a few days later some size 16 black quills were spotted. They all were assumed to be Leptophlebia due to appearance and the time of emergence, though Ann Miller lists size 10-14 as the hook sizes. Has anyone observed Leptophlebia smaller than size 14, and if so what sizes?

2. Recently Telagonopsis deficiens showed up in its typical size 20. Other similar bugs are also present, though, in size 16 and 18, causing some confusion. Some believe these to be very dark Paraleptophlebias, while others have speculated thatTelagonopsis deficiens may come in sizes larger than size 20. Without photos, of course, actual identification is impossible, but has anyone noted size variablilty in Telagonopsis deficiens--do they ever reach size 18, or even 16?

All the bugs mentioned above had 3 tails.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
TaxonJune 7th, 2013, 1:25 pm
Site Editor
Royse City, TX

Posts: 1350
Hi Lewis-

The following mayflies of genus Leptophlebia found in PA:

Species----EmergenceStart----EmergencEnd----SpinnerMinLen----SpinnerMaxLen
cupida-----mid-Apr-------------late-Aug-----------8 mm--------------12.5 mm
intermedia-------------------------------------------11 mm-------------9 mm ??
johnsoni---mid-Jun-------------early-Jul-----------9 mm--------------11 mm
nebulosa--mid-May-------------mid-Jun-----------11 mm-------------13 mm

Also, generally speaking, the females of a given species tend to be somewhat longer than the respective males.

Teloganopsis deficiens can apparently vary from 4.5-6 mm in adult body length.
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
MartinlfJune 7th, 2013, 5:47 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3233
Thank you, Roger; this is very helpful. So, if we use the shank length of a Tiemco 101 dry fly hook (hk = hook size) we have the following:

hk=mm:
8= 12
10=11
12= 9
14= 8
16= 7
18= 6
20= 5

It would appear that Leptophlebia can range from a size 8 (or slightly larger), down to a size 14, while Teloganopsis range from 18 to 20 (or slightly smaller).

Of course, hook sizes and angler's estimates of bug sizes are subject to a considerable variability, but it is clear that "black quills" come in many different sizes.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
OldredbarnJune 10th, 2013, 11:43 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2608
Louis...Sometimes the Little Mahogany and the Great Mahogany might look similar but are very different in size...Paraleptophlebia vs Leptophlebia...I wasn't there, but hey!?

I often wonder about all the books where we read about the so-called "super" hatches and there may be bugs out there that don't have that super-star status and we know little about them...Under the radar hatch.

The boys in Grayling would just tell you to tie on a Borchers and "forget about it!" :) A guide saying up there is, "When in doubt, tie on a Borchers."

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
TNEALJune 11th, 2013, 4:20 pm
GRAYLING. MICHIGAN

Posts: 278
right you are , Spence. And why not, with 8 20-25" fish taken in two days of Hendricksons on a size #14 Borchers?








Tight lines, Tim
MartinlfAugust 28th, 2013, 9:08 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3233
Bumping this up as it relates to Eric's "August ephemerelid" thread. Roger notes Teloganopsis can vary from 4.5-6 mm. This seems close enough, especially if there is any margin of error.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell

Quick Reply

You have to be logged in to post on the forum. It's this easy:
Username:          Email:

Password:    Confirm Password:

I am at least 13 years old and agree to the rules.

Related Discussions

TitleRepliesLast Reply
Re: Emerger
In the Mayfly Genus Serratella by Martinlf
6Jun 11, 2009
by GONZO
Re: Smallmouth bass
In Fishing Reports by Wbranch
7Oct 27, 2015
by Jmd123
Re: Those Darn Olives
In Male Baetis Mayfly Dun by Martinlf
10May 30, 2009
by Martinlf
Re: Ryacophila on spring?
In Rhyacophila fuscula Caddisfly Larva by LittleJ
8Nov 8, 2008
by LittleJ
Re: August ephmerellid
In the Identify This! Board by Crepuscular
29Sep 14, 2013
by Jmd123
Re: maggot ball
In Fly Tying by Bowmandjk
4Nov 6, 2007
by Bowmandjk
Re: I need your help to get some specimens of Caecidotea (Freshwater isopods).
In General Discussion by Leonardo
4Jun 1, 2016
by Crepuscular
Re: Hook size translated to mm, inches
In Fly Tying by Jschoen
15Jun 3, 2023
by Martinlf
Re: What Flies should I use?
In General Discussion by Adirman
3Apr 6, 2021
by Wbranch
Re: What hatch???
In General Discussion by Keystoner
6May 4, 2011
by PaulRoberts