Mayfly from spring creek

Al514 has attached this picture to aid in identification. The message is below.

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Al514	May 5th, 2007, 7:46 pm
Central New York Posts: 142	ID please! Fish were hitting these all day. I'm in the northeast.

Taxon	May 5th, 2007, 9:22 pm
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	AI514- Nice photo. My guess would be Paraleptophlebia, perhaps P. adoptiva.
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

JAD	May 6th, 2007, 4:54 am
Alexandria Pa Posts: 362	Good picture ,fine quality I agree. (Adoptiva.) john
	They fasten red (crimson red) wool around a hook, and fix onto the wool two feathers which grow under a cock’s wattles, and which in colour are like wax. Radcliffe's Fishing from the Earliest Times,

Troutnut	May 6th, 2007, 10:43 pm
Administrator Bellevue, WA Posts: 2737	Nice picture -- that's a striking mayfly! I'm not so sure about P. adoptiva. All of those I've caught (at least, all I think were that species) had unmarked slate gray wings without such dark veins. Leptophlebiidae does seem right. I'm really busy now or I would try to narrow it down more.
	Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D. Troutnut and salmonid ecologist

Quillgordon	May 7th, 2007, 4:49 am
Schuylkill County, PA. Posts: 109	Al...... Nice picture -- that's a striking mayfly! Very nice photo........ I need a camera! Taxon..... I'm not so sure about P. adoptiva. All of those I've caught (at least, all I think were that species) had unmarked slate gray wings without such dark veins. Jason is questioning you ???.... LOL........ Is the 'honeymoon over' ????? Hmmmmm Just stirring the pot ! LOL John.....
	Flyfishing is a state of mind! .............. Q.g. C/R........barbless

Troutnut	May 7th, 2007, 5:02 am
Administrator Bellevue, WA Posts: 2737	Okay, now that I've got a little more time to confirm my instinct that it just doesn't quite "look" like Paraleptophlebia, I checked Arbona's book on Mayflies to verify one of the characteristics that was bugging me: the middle tail is shorter than the outer ones. That means Leptophlebia rather than Paraleptophlebia. (Unless it's some more obscure genus in that family like Choroterpes, about which I have no identification information handy.)
	Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D. Troutnut and salmonid ecologist

Taxon	May 7th, 2007, 8:31 pm
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	Mea culpa, Leptophlebia makes sense.
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Quillgordon	May 8th, 2007, 4:19 am
Schuylkill County, PA. Posts: 109	Looking at the photo of Jason's L.cupida( the old 'Blasturus cupidas, love that name, why did they change it)........ .... shouldn't the eyes and legs be 'blackish' not brown? .....wings... they look more 'bluish gray than 'grayish brown' @ Ref: 'Matching the Hatch', E. Schwiebert,Jr., pg.41,48. * I see the middle tail is shorter( may be broken ?) ** It just doesn't seem that the colors( noted above) are correct! Just asking...
	Flyfishing is a state of mind! .............. Q.g. C/R........barbless

Troutnut	May 8th, 2007, 8:17 am
Administrator Bellevue, WA Posts: 2737	Yeah, I kind of doubt it's L. cupida too. But there are many other species of Leptophlebia. That's why I'd like to catch some to photograph for my site; they're probably a species I don't have yet.
	Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D. Troutnut and salmonid ecologist

Taxon	May 8th, 2007, 5:45 pm
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	NY Leptophlebia are L. bradleyi, L. cupida, L. johnsoni, and L. nebulosa. Absence of dark forelegs probably eliminates L. cupida. Based on wing venation and tail markings, it could be L. johnsoni, but who knows.
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Quillgordon	May 9th, 2007, 5:43 am
Schuylkill County, PA. Posts: 109	NY Leptophlebia are L. bradleyi, L. cupida, L. johnsoni, and L. nebulosa. Absence of dark forelegs probably eliminates L. cupida. Based on wing venation and tail markings, it could be L. johnsoni, but who knows. Taxon..... I was counting on you to know! ..........Rats! OK..... I feel a little better! Cheers!
	Flyfishing is a state of mind! .............. Q.g. C/R........barbless

Troutnut	May 18th, 2007, 3:05 pm
Administrator Bellevue, WA Posts: 2737	It's either L. cupida or L. nebulosa. Apparently L. johnsoni has a middle tail as long as or longer than the outer tail. L. bradleyi is ruled out by the size and the depth of the median notch on abdominal segment 9 on my female spinner. I think the apparent darkness of the legs may just depend on the lighting, because my specimens do have darker fore legs. Unfortunately I can't tell which of these two species it is, because the darn key for female spinners requires that I have a ball of eggs to tell them apart. Here are the two specimens, both females, that I collected after going to this same creek a couple days after Al514: http://www.troutnut.com/specimen/710 http://www.troutnut.com/specimen/711
	Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D. Troutnut and salmonid ecologist

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