AndresT	December 4th, 2011, 6:16 am
Vigo-Spain Posts: 25	Hello all, my good friend cholo has recorded a video showing his new invention; do you want to give life to your flies? If the answer is yes, have a look at his video. Congratulations Cholo!!! http://vimeo.com/33023915

Softhackle	December 4th, 2011, 8:12 am
Site Editor Wellsville, NY Posts: 540	I hate to say this, but I do not consider those flies, but lures. In addition I have never seen a natural insect that swims like that. In fact I have seen very little fish food that rotates like that in the water. I'm not saying it will not attract the fish's attention or it won't work. It's just to me, this motion seems unnatural, or it may be more effective on specific species of fish rather than a wide range of fish. To me movement in natural insects is a lot more subtle. If you want to impart action, incorporate some soft-hackle flies, or dries using CDC. Even an active wet fly retrieve is a lot less pronounced than what's going on in the video. Mark
	"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html

Sayfu	December 4th, 2011, 8:44 am
Posts: 560	softhackle..So my articulators that I glue on a diving lip below the head, and include a battery under the body to help articulate you would term a lure.:) My dentist friend did design some plastic, diving lip flies. And rumor had it the good Doc slipped in a smelly substance into his fly floatant. He worked long, and hard hours not getting out much, and I guess felt he need to "level the playing field."

Lastchance	December 4th, 2011, 9:13 am
Portage, PA Posts: 437	Sounds like a lure to me, Sayfu. Bruce

Softhackle	December 4th, 2011, 11:08 am
Site Editor Wellsville, NY Posts: 540	Adding scent does not make it a lure nor does using plastics. Adding a device to make something dive like a lip doesn't make it a lure, either. A battery would, IMO, make it a lure. It's a mechanical device-a contraption, so to speak. Flies are not mechanical. However, this device in the video is clearly a lure, not a fly. Mark
	"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html

Sayfu	December 4th, 2011, 1:47 pm
Posts: 560	what is interesting to me, (and for one I have often seen in print, a fly referred to as a lure.) What is interesting is how far a fly angler will go to construct a fly/lure. It comes down to the individuals standards as to what they will accept. A few years back I was very impressed with the spin fisherman's success of catching big browns on our SF using 1/4 Oz jig hooks, and then putting on a white rubber tube skirt. Few of the anglers would buy any other color but white for the low, clear,cold water in Nov. and Dec. Fish after fish. Their success was incredible. And then my game plan. I tied big white streamers in all white with cone heads, but not heavily wt'd as I used a 24ft. 200 grain head on the forward portion of a WF line. I had incredible success and marveled at the visibility of white. Then I bought fly/jig hooks unwt'd, and put my own bead wt. at the heads to get the jig action they were getting. I think back at Dennis Dalburg, the Dalburg (sp?) diver guy, who teamed with Witlock early on. He made some beautiful deer hair divers in different color configurations with deer hair diving lips trimmed out on some of them so they would dive, wobble and gurgle...so does the plastic lip cross the line? I'll say it is up to the angler. I have my standards, but sure like to evaluate, and contemplate how I can create the same strike triggers in a fish that the spin guy creates without violating my standards.

Softhackle	December 4th, 2011, 3:54 pm
Site Editor Wellsville, NY Posts: 540	Not to argue with anyone's definition because we each have our own standards, however ideally a fly would imitate a stage of an insect. Most include streamers, which supposedly imitate, small fish or other aquatic life. Others consider anything that can be presented using a fly rod as a fly. A fly is certainly a lure, because the definition of the word "lure" is much broader than that of "fly", which is inherently, narrower in scope. My definition of fly is a representation of a living thing which fish take as natural food and is propelled to the water by the weight of the fly line, rather than using its own weight to present it. Notice I clarified my definition by referring to the weight of the fly line rather than saying the object could be presented with a fly rod. Many objects can be fished with a fly rod, including bait, but that does not make them "flies" A small bead or wire added to help the fly sink is fine as long as it does not add enough weight to the fly to allow it to be cast using its own weight, as with a spinning rod. This would probably exclude a lot of over-weighted cone-heads and jigs. If I recall correctly, The Dahlberg Diver didn't use a lip to make it dive, but the behavior was built into the body construction of the fly. I would not exclude a plastic lip, as it would not add extra weight, most likely, to the fly. This narrower view on my part may seem purist to some, as was my classification of that lure as a lure rather than a fly. There was something mechanical going on there that, to me, classified it as a lure rather than a "fly". To me lures are more "Hardware"-like. This was the impression I got from the video. I did not mean to imply that building in movement into a fly like the diver would declassify it as a fly. In this instance, the action of the lure looked to be very mechanical and un-natural. Making it more a lure. Mark
	"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html

Jesse	December 4th, 2011, 8:23 pm
Posts: 378	Thats no damn fly its a lure!!!
	Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after. http://www.filingoflyfishing.com

Sayfu	December 4th, 2011, 8:50 pm
Posts: 560	Mark..You articulate your definition much better than I mine, and I accept yours. Sounds well thought out. I've relied on gut feeling more than anything I guess. A small spinner placed at the head of the fly could be cast easily, but I would not use that component. And I do not know why I don't use more wt. on nymphs, and fish them deep. I have them, but never fish them. I have told other anglers I do fish other methods a few times a summer for panfish, and a method I really enjoyed as a steelheader years ago was drift fishing with pencil lead, and tap-taping the bottom highly focused on differentiating between a bottom bounce, and the subtle take of my drifted offering. But I won't accept doing it with the flyrod for trout.

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