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> > YES! another rod question, Page 2
| Keystoner | November 10th, 2011, 12:57 pm | |
 Posts: 145 | Perhaps, I mispoke in the first lines of my post. Then again, semantics were not my main concern at the time. Spence, allow me to explain. I am not alledging that all fly rods are the same, or that they should be. Obviously, there will always be better and worse, with prices that correspond, and that's fine. However, I think at some point the quality/performance of a rod stops, and the price keeps going. And I don't like it, personally. My comment on "exclusion" was not meant in the sense that you seem to have taken it. I'm not saying that everything and everyone should be made to be the same. I just think the prices that some of these companies are charging for fly rods are unjustified. Also, I am not judging anyone who purchases any rod, for any price. It's your money, do what you want. Personally though, I think it's unnecessary. That "righteous" comment was aimed at the industry, not the individual. I am not an excellent caster, and there have been times when I have thought, "If I had a nicer rod, I could be better." Ultimately though I don't think that's it. Instead of buying something, what I need to do is practice. Ceratinly, there is equipment that will make anything easier, but I think at the core it's your ability that matters. Does that make any sense?? | |
| "Out into the cool of the evening, strolls the Pretender. He knows that all his hopes and dreams, begin and end there." -JB | ||
| Softhackle | November 10th, 2011, 1:07 pm | |
 Site Editor Wellsville, NYPosts: 540 | Hi Spence, I agree with you that quality of product deserves our attention and we've got to consider-"made in America" to keep our economy viable. Well-made, well-crafted objects deserve to be paid for, and likewise, junk doesn't. Years ago, when I was learning my craft of making art, I learned that quality materials led to better results and more lasting quality. No use creating art on newsprint! To this day I insist on quality products to create my art. Top grade paints and paper are must for light-fastness and long-lasting paintings. I also recommend matting in preservation quality materials. As an artist interested in quality, I learned what goes into the making of quality art products That being said, a lot of what I use is made overseas in various locations. My paper comes from France by D'Arches. The paper is 100% cotton fiber-neutral PH. The paints, Holbein, are made in Japan, which are quality pigments, gum arabic and honey with little fillers. When I was in Germany, I marveled at the quality of many goods including cameras. Names like Voiglander and Hasselblad meant excellence in lens crafting. Now, Japanese lens makers rival their quality. Nikon, Fuji, and others produce quality cameras. Guess what I'm saying is quality products can be made anywhere if those making them take the time to do it right, using quality materials. Granted, there's a lot of garbage, out there, but often one can find reasonable equipment at reasonable prices which perform well. I just hate to think someone would put-off learning to fly fish or participate in the sport because they could not afford a $500 fly rod. Of course we all admire a beautifully made rod or reel or fly! Mark | |
| "I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html | ||
| Entoman | November 10th, 2011, 1:19 pm | |
 Posts: 2604 | Well said, Mark. | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Falsifly | November 10th, 2011, 1:52 pm | |
 Posts: 661 | Sorry guys, but I just couldn’t resist. It’s a bit lengthy but sure to get a smile if not a laugh. http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7795583/a-new-fly-rod | |
| Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that." | ||
| Oldredbarn | November 10th, 2011, 2:08 pm | |
 Posts: 2608 | You know I'm partial to them Hardy's...The older ones especially, eh...Mark ;) I'm not really a made in USA, or made in Detroit, kind of person...I wasn't trying to chase anyone away either...Well maybe...There is an evil side to my personality that I inherited from my grumpy old mentor who used to like to say, "Don't encourage them Spence! When they decide to give up fly fishing and head to the golf course, maybe we can buy their gear at their yard sale! Cheap." I think there's a different point in there somewhere and I'm sticking to it...:) I'm either a piss poor communicator or folks should slow down when they are reading it. ;) I will say again that I am the proud owner of 4 wonderful rods that are named manufacturers that were assembled by the aforementioned grump...If Keystoner was to build his own rods from blanks he could save some dough and he could really put it to them and leave off the decal with their name on it...I would be willing to bet that this would not happen. I have a 5th homemade rod that I forget to count that is an old Fenwick that was given to me as a replacement for my Loomis when it was broken in an accident (wife steered canoe in to sweeper along S Branch) and had to be shipped back to match up the blanks. The tip section of the Fenwick is wrapped with one color thread and the butt section with another...My friend got halfway through repairing it and stopped...It still fishes though...Maybe I should send it to Jonathon so he can cool off that 3wt and have a more appropriate sized rod for throwing his KBF! :) Folks who have never run a business and are unhappy about price forget that these rod makers have overhead...A physical plant that needs to have the lights and heat paid for, insurance if the damn thing burns to the ground, payroll for craftsmen as oppossed to hacks to create a quality product, design folks to be paid, raw materials cost, the cost of being willing to take a rod back for nothing after my wife plowed us in to some trees or when I dropped the rear door down on the tip section of one of my Sage's, advertising, demo's, sales-folk, etc, etc...Why should this all be free or damn near so? Can't the souls who are creative enough to make these things for us be allowed to make a nickel?! Call an 800# next time out and good luck. In the early 2000's some time when I bought the Light Line Sage from my buddy, I stole it from him for a whopping $200! I love that rod! and I love hassling him about it since he's tried to get it back...;) Maybe we should just cool it, as Matt has told me over and over, with telling each other how to fish and just go fishing! :) To each there own, right? Time to tie some flies! Spence | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
| Entoman | November 10th, 2011, 2:09 pm | |
Posts: 2604 | LOL:):) Allan, how do you find this stuff? Hilarious... I'm thinking of going back to my glass & grass collection more often now. Humans are funny critters... Regards, Kurt | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Softhackle | November 10th, 2011, 2:24 pm | |
Site Editor Wellsville, NYPosts: 540 | Spence, I agree. Fishing is the best thing to do, BUT for me, I'm a bit inconvenienced at present. If the guy fishing just down river catches a magnificent fish, decked out in spawning colors, I would not look at his rod or reel-I might spy on the fly-but the fish would take center stage. That's the way it should be. Mark | |
| "I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html | ||
| Oldredbarn | November 10th, 2011, 2:47 pm | |
Posts: 2608 | Spence, Ok... Maybe he'll show us his rod back up in the parking lot...;) Spence Allan...Ouch! That was painful to watch...We don't resemble those two, do we? :) The only thing more convoluted is reading our "bug boys" when they are in full stride! You can almost imagine them in the library hitting each other over the head, one with his Needham, the other his Leonard, and yet a third with his Maccaferty... | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
| Falsifly | November 10th, 2011, 3:13 pm | |
Posts: 661 | So, any suggestions on a great all around length and weight for everything from small 6" trout to 17"+ monsters? Poor Derelict, and on his first post no less. All the guy wanted was a little advice from the fly fishing “EXPERTS”. And what does he get? A convoluted bunch of mumbo jumbo from business ethics to fly selection, of which I find myself complicit. Derelict, please come back, we could use your advice;) | |
| Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that." | ||
| Jmd123 | November 10th, 2011, 3:17 pm | |
 Posts: 2611 | Wow, this thread sure lit up the site! Wonder what our recent newbie thinks of us NOW? Derelict, are you still there?? I think you go for whatever works for you, including price-wise. I am still somewhat incredulous that, at my relatively advanced stage of fly-fishing experience (though certainly less than many if not most of the regular posters on this here site), I am able to accomplish what I want with a rod that costs a mere $50. Shouldn't I be saving my pennies, as Spence says he's doing, for something expensive and sophisticated? Shouldn't my skill level be demanding that I purchase a fancy, American made rod for the "advanced angler"? Yet, dang it, that cheap little 3-weight is just a BLAST to fish with, it casts surprisingly well, I can throw far with it or short and accurate, and yet it has enough backbone to bring a 5-lb. smallmouth bass to my net. I don't feel like I NEED anything more to enjoy the hell out of myself with a fly rod, and with money being perpetually tight in my semi-employed life I just don't have the bucks to spend. I do look at the catalogues and websites and think, hmmmm, I wonder how this or that rod would feel, and if I do ever get a few extra bucks I might just have to purchase a few more, as I like to put it, delicate wands of graphite. But in the meantime, that cheap 3-weight puts the fly out there where I want it and brings a lot of fish to my hands. It's still plenty hot, Spence, and it may not get a chance to cool off just yet - Saturday it's supposed to hit the low fifties with sunshine and (hopefully) little wind, so yet another kayak-fishing trip to my perch-n-rainbow lake in the National Forest might be in order. Large fish of either species will get their photos posted on here! Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| TNEAL | November 10th, 2011, 3:53 pm | |
| GRAYLING. MICHIGAN Posts: 278 | Did someone mention enjoying fly-fishing? How about, at the end of the day, we try to add up how much we enjoyed our experience regardless of the tackle used? I have yet to catch a fish that cared how much I spent on my tackle...... | |
| Oldredbarn | November 10th, 2011, 4:53 pm | |
Posts: 2608 | How about, at the end of the day, we try to add up how much we enjoyed our experience Ok Mr. Au Sable...I guess you are right...I should just get down in the basement and start wrapping something to a hook and stop playing around here...Just in the time it took me to compose that post old JR probably pumped out 3 dozen...:) Spence You know I really tried to sit this one out too... | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
| Oldredbarn | November 16th, 2011, 11:43 am | |
Posts: 2608 | http://store.hookhack.com/ I just recieved an email from Hook & Hackle and they are having a fall sale on rod building kits of all flavors. I'm all-set, but maybe it can give someone here something to do this winter other than prattle-on here at TroutNut...:) When the rod is complete post us a photo of your work. Spence | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
| Goose | November 17th, 2011, 10:38 am | |
| Posts: 77 | Anyone here ever fish a Hook and Hackle blank? | |
| Keystoner | November 17th, 2011, 11:32 pm | |
Posts: 145 | I just recieved an email from Hook & Hackle and they are having a fall sale on rod building kits of all flavors. I'm all-set, but maybe it can give someone here something to do this winter other than prattle-on here at TroutNut...:) When the rod is complete post us a photo of your work. Hmmm, I can't be sure but I think I just heard the guantlet being thrown down. :) I've been searching Hook & Hackle, and I can't seem to find a 10' 6wt 4piece blank, which is what I've got my heart set on. Don't worry Spence, I'm looking HARD, and I'll have something to show you by Spring. | |
| "Out into the cool of the evening, strolls the Pretender. He knows that all his hopes and dreams, begin and end there." -JB | ||
| Keystoner | November 17th, 2011, 11:38 pm | |
Posts: 145 | And seriously, what happened to the new guy?? | |
| "Out into the cool of the evening, strolls the Pretender. He knows that all his hopes and dreams, begin and end there." -JB | ||
| Jmd123 | November 18th, 2011, 12:58 am | |
Posts: 2611 | I'm sure we scared him off with our heated discussion...well done, fellas. Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| Wbranch | December 4th, 2011, 3:46 pm | |
 Posts: 2733 | Sayfu commented on a Stranglermangler post; ".."No rod warrants a $700.00 price tag." Got to disagree with you on that one. Consider everything from the built in cost of the guarantee, expensive guides and parts, and the bottomline is the market determines the justification. Orvis' $700 expensive rod just went past the 10,000 rods sold mark. And remember, many decades ago anglers were willing to pay over a $1,000 and more for a nicely made bamboo rod. I agree no fly rod is worth those astronomical $700 - $900 price tags. Why do you think the makers like Orvis, Winston, Sage, and others can offer "lifetime warranties"? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Of course not, that broken tip section that they are replacing for you is already paid for in the $700 you and all the other guys who bought those rods paid for in the initial purchase. Why on earth do people think they have some right to get rods repaired forever when almost every broken rod is the direct resultant of angler error? Every single rod I've ever broken was because I did something dumb. Tried to yank a fly out of a branch and the tip broke, who here hasn't done that? Get a rod stuck in the trunk of the car, put together a rod in a room in the Caribbean and stick it into the spinning overhead fan blades. Trip over it getting in, or out, of a drift boat. Yes, I've even broken a couple on fish but they were my fault too - so why should a rod maker give me a new rod or rod section? BTW the hardware like guides, cork, and reelseats are not all that expensive when they are buying thousands of them at a time. When I was building rods I was getting Bellinger and Struble reelseats and wood inserts for as much as 50% below list. I was only buying a few at a time - the makers buying thousands might be getting even better pricing. You really shouldn't try and compare the price of a hand crafted bamboo rod with a graphite rod. The intensive hand labor required in splitting raw cane, planing six accurate sections, gluing, hardware mounting, varnishing, etc. is just not the same in the manufacture of a graphite rod. That is why a good bamboo rod today is going to cost $2500 - $3000. | |
| Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years. | ||
| Wbranch | December 4th, 2011, 3:50 pm | |
Posts: 2733 | Goose wrote; "Anyone here ever fish a Hook and Hackle blank?" That should probably read "Anyone here ever fish a Lamiglas blank?" Catalogs that are selling blanks with their logo are more than likely buying the blanks from Lamiglas one of the USA's largest maker (if not the largest) of graphite blanks. | |
| Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years. | ||
| Oldredbarn | December 4th, 2011, 5:45 pm | |
Posts: 2608 | put together a rod in a room in the Caribbean and stick it into the spinning overhead fan blades. Matt, That must of put a damper on things! Ouch! I lost a tip on a Sage because I put off fixing the hatch shocks on my Jeep...Every damn night in the winter that I went to play hockey it would fall on my head. Do you think I'd take a moment to fix it? I was on the North Branch Au Sable...It had been warm the first few days I was up and the hatch stayed up and then the low front that follows me on nearly every fishing trip showed up during the night. I was attaching my reel to the butt section and talking with a fishing buddy when I looked to my left to see the door closing down and my rod tube sock hanging out the closed door. I never looked at it...I just felt with my fingers that it was broken and had to drive back to my room and grab another rod....Tip matched by Sage for free and my friend who originally built the rod repaired it for me. I lost a tip on a Loomis in a canoe trip with my wife. I wanted to fish and ignored the fact that she had never handled a canoe...South Branch Au Sable...Loomis matched the tip for me for free and my friend repaired it again. So yes Matt, I agree with you completely...My rods would be safe and sound if it wasn't for me...:) Spence Please don't remind me of the Hardy reel I left on the roof of my car one evening after fishing...I never saw it again after that mistake! | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
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