Am I missing something??

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Keystoner	October 9th, 2011, 10:21 pm
Eugene, OR - formerly Eastern PA Posts: 145	In the Summer 2011 issue of The Drake magazine, Simms ran an ad which states, "Made in Montana. By Anglers who were made in Montana." I found this to be quite perplexing as every piece of Simms gear that I have ever owned seems to have a tag in it which states. "Made in China" Last I checked, China was not Montana, so how can this be? Are Simms a rotten pack of liars? Or, am I missing something. Thoughts??
	"Out into the cool of the evening, strolls the Pretender. He knows that all his hopes and dreams, begin and end there." -JB

Entoman	October 9th, 2011, 11:19 pm
Northern CA & ID Posts: 2604	It's the doo-dads, Matt. To the best of my knowledge, at least their high end waders, vests and wading jackets are made in Montana. FWIW, I consider them the best on the market. Though I wished they made them (high end Waders and jackets) without pockets or adornments of any kind as an option. Regards, Kurt
	"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Lastchance	October 10th, 2011, 7:55 am
Portage, PA Posts: 437	They're saying "Made In America" because that is what they want you to believe. I wouldn't call them bold-faced liars, just business (deceitful) persons. For example, if an entire coat is make in Pakistan and the buttons are sewn on in the US, legally it can be said the coat was made in the US. It's all about greed. Bruce (Goose-Lastchance)

Afishinado	October 10th, 2011, 8:27 am
SE PA Posts: 76	The Textile Fiber Products Identification Act and Wool Products Labeling Act require a Made in USA label on most clothing and other textile or wool household products if the final product is manufactured in the U.S. of fabric that is manufactured in the U.S., regardless of where materials earlier in the manufacturing process (for example, the yarn and fiber) came from. Textile products that are imported must be labeled as required by the Customs Service. A textile or wool product partially manufactured in the U.S. and partially manufactured in another country must be labeled to show both foreign and domestic processing. On a garment with a neck, the country of origin must be disclosed on the front of a label attached to the inside center of the neck — either midway between the shoulder seams or very near another label attached to the inside center of the neck. On a garment without a neck, and on other kinds of textile products, the country of origin must appear on a conspicuous and readily accessible label on the inside or outside of the product. Catalogs and other mail order promotional materials for textile and wool products, including those disseminated on the Internet, must disclose whether a product is made in the U.S., imported or both. The Fur Products Labeling Act requires the country of origin of imported furs to be disclosed on all labels and in all advertising.

Entoman	October 10th, 2011, 2:52 pm
Northern CA & ID Posts: 2604	Thanks for the info Afishinado. Lastchance -So, unless I'm misunderstanding you, business equates to deceit and greed in your opinion? I have had nothing but good experiences with the people at Simms. For that matter, the same can be said for the vast majority of "business people" I've met in my life. Are there bad apples out there? Sure... But you paint with a pretty broad brush. regards, Kurt
	"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Oldredbarn	October 10th, 2011, 4:28 pm
Novi, MI Posts: 2608	a rotten pack of liars? Now fellas! Don't get me going! :) I am in Detroit here and we have never had a "capitalist" tell us any fibs...;) As much as I love the Chrysler ads "Imported from Detroit"... Even though it still wouldn't be totally accurate, "Imported from Windsor Ontario" would be closer to the truth...Hell! Chrysler Corp, I mean Chrysler Financial, I mean Chrysler Group LLC, isn't even headquartered in Detroit proper...Depending on whether you were in a Dodge Caravan or a Viper it's a good 30-45 mins north of town in Auburn Hills/Turin Italy... "Made In America" I'm not sure where everybody's been, but this ship has sailed from our ports a long time ago...Will the last textile worker left in the good old USA please remember to turn off the lights... Spence
	"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood

Entoman	October 10th, 2011, 8:47 pm
Northern CA & ID Posts: 2604	Now fellas! Don't get me going! :) I am in Detroit here and we have never had a "capitalist" tell us any fibs...;) Ha! Nor politicians, bureaucrats, or union bosses either. A barrel as big as that must have plenty of bad apples! :) OK Spence, I'll get off my soapbox (but Simms is still a good company).
	"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Sayfu	October 10th, 2011, 9:09 pm
Posts: 560	I think what they meant was...made by the country that owns America. :)

Oldredbarn	October 10th, 2011, 11:35 pm
Novi, MI Posts: 2608	Ha! Nor politicians, bureaucrats, or union bosses either. A barrel as big as that must have plenty of bad apples! :) Ha! Right back at you Kurt...You are right. It has been known to get rather stanky in this town...We all have to step up and take ownership of our own stink...:) The Queen of Soul had an interesting tune back in the 80's, "Who's Zoomin Who?!" It probably isn't a coincidence she spent the majority of her life in the motorcity. I love my new pair, this year, of Simms waders and the wading boots are the best getiing on and off...I'm getting to the age where anything that doesn't function smoothly needs to be replaced. Spence If I ever found the time to write the story of Detroit, just during my lifetime, I'd either win a Pulitzer or someone would have me shot...:)
	"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood

GONZO	October 11th, 2011, 12:20 am
Site Editor "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 1681	I'm getting to the age where anything that doesn't function smoothly needs to be replaced. Spence....Are you talking about equipment or body parts?

Taxon	October 11th, 2011, 5:09 am
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	Spence....Are you talking about equipment or body parts? Lloyd- It won't be much longer before you begin seeing somewhat less humor in the differentiation. :-)
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

GONZO	October 11th, 2011, 8:18 am
Site Editor "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 1681	Touché, Roger. :)

Goose	October 11th, 2011, 8:55 am
Posts: 77	Thanks for the info Afishinado. Lastchance -So, unless I'm misunderstanding you, business equates to deceit and greed in your opinion? I have had nothing but good experiences with the people at Simms. For that matter, the same can be said for the vast majority of "business people" I've met in my life. Are there bad apples out there? Sure... But you paint with a pretty broad brush. regards, Kurt Yep, I can't make my brush wide enough. I, too, have had both good and bad experiences with business people, mostly bad. There isn't much honesty out there anymore.

Oldredbarn	October 11th, 2011, 9:36 am
Novi, MI Posts: 2608	It won't be much longer before you begin seeing somewhat less humor in the differentiation. :-) Now that's funny Roger, but it sounds like you are speaking from experience... My mother-in-law who passed last March once told me, "Kid...Growing old isn't for wimps!" Spence
	"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood

Taxon	October 11th, 2011, 10:34 am
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	Lloyd- Touché, Roger. :)
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Taxon	October 11th, 2011, 10:38 am
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	Spence- Now that's funny Roger, but it sounds like you are speaking from experience. Guilty as charged.
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Strmanglr	October 11th, 2011, 11:15 am
Posts: 156	Made in Montana or not, Simms just replaced my waders that were at least 4 years old, and I fish a ton, completely free! I didn't even have to pay return postage. Unless they do something way wrong I'll be a customer for a long time. "They're saying "Made In America" because that is what they want you to believe. I wouldn't call them bold-faced liars, just business (deceitful) persons." I'm a business person and I take offense to that. Business people are just people like everyone else trying to make it in this crazy world. Why would you attack someone like that. Don't you buy anything made from a business? Don't you know someone who works in business? Do you treat them as poorly? And your a site editor??? Maybe this isn't the fishing site for me. Sad.

Strmanglr	October 11th, 2011, 11:17 am
Posts: 156	My bad on the site editor. Just saw so many here. Maybe one of them can help you understand the word respect.

Jmd123	October 11th, 2011, 12:26 pm
Oscoda, MI Posts: 2611	Don't know if I should wade in (pun intended) on this discussion, given some of my past rants on this site (which I haven't done for a while - newer members can be thankful they've been spared!), but since I work for a business (environmental consulting) at least part-time, I will add my 2 cents, for what it's worth... Some businesses lie and some don't - just like people. I've worked for companies that told outright lies, in one case in an unsuccessful attempt to deny me unemployment, after they fired me when I protested about their lying to me about how much field work I would have in my job. They may not have lied to their clients, but they sure did to me as well as the unemployment agency. They were a bad example, and I did not work for them for very long. The company I work for now, on the other hand, hasn't really ever lied to me and certainly does NOT do so to it's clients. If they did, I wouldn't have worked for them since 1999. My previous employer never lied to me or it's clients either, nor did my employer before that. It just depends on the people running the business. I do believe that GM lies about the gas mileage that it states for the vehicles that it produces, as I have a Chevy Cobalt that gets 30-32 mpg on the highway when it's supposed to be getting 37, and it's a 2009! We also know that polticians lie, not all of them and not all of the time, but many of them and a good deal of the time. ANYONE in a position of power in our society may lie to us. This should be no surprise to anyone here or elsewhere. Having said that, I prefer thus: that my fisheries and fishing opportunties be controlled by a public agency (government, state, Federal, or local, depending) so that I don't have to pay a fee to some private concern just to go fishing; and that my fishing equipment be made by a private enterprise, so that I don't have to put up with shoddy gear made in a state-run factory like in the bad old days of Soviet Russia. Also, I have a second job teaching introductory biology at a community college, so I work both in the private AND public sectors. I need them BOTH, and so does our society as a whole. The TRICK here, people, is striking the right balance between the two, and that gives our politicians and media pundits endless sources of argument...wherein, I'd rather be fishing... Jonathon
	No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...

Jmd123	October 11th, 2011, 12:29 pm
Oscoda, MI Posts: 2611	BTW Roger, when are you going to emerge? Haven't you been a larva long eough? Complete your life cycle already!!! ;oD Jonathon
	No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...

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