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> > Getting into a "Fly Selection rut" when Fishing, Page 2
| Oldredbarn | June 10th, 2011, 4:13 pm | |
 Posts: 2608 | And my decision to use this fly was simply based upon what was in my box Damn! Jonathon...Why am I not surprised???!!! Why can't I fish this way? If I only could convince myself to fish only the infamous KBF and a female Adams I could sell 99% of all my tying materials if not more...Mail order houses would soon go out of business (it's like the dip in Molson's stock when I try to lose weight)... I have a few variations on the nymph, several different emerger's (loop winged, Lawson's half & half, some with trailing shucks and some without etc), duns of many shapes and forms, and a couple different spinner's...Dry's/Wets/Damps...And this is all for one particular mayfly! I have a box (at least) for Henny's, another for invaria, dorothea, our aforementioned March Brown, Baetis, paraleps, and we haven't even touched on the Drakes I may bump in to in late May, or the caddis, stones, midges...etc...If I add a box of streamers or remember to find a place for the land based bugs I wouldn't be able to stand up! No wonder I've had two back surgeries! I need to see a shrink or force myself in to a Zen like state and only allow myself one fly pattern period... I may have mentioned this already but I showed a couple friends a secret access site this last time up and they marked it with a GPS device...So now we are even using satelites to try and out-fox the pea-sized brain trout... Maybe I should just take up playing chess...At least there is a set number of pieces in that game... :) Somebody stop me!!! I need an intervention...My name is Spencer and I'm a fly-a-holic! It all started for me when I received my first Thompson "A" and mixed my first bit of beaver dubbing...It just somehow felt so right...Decades later I'm a broken man with zillions of dollars tied up in my addiction...Somehow never satisfied and living forever in fear of approaching the stream unprepared...I couldn't face myself or my fly fishing mentor if I were to ever find myself across from a rising trout who was slurping in an insect I didn't have covered... Send lawyers, guns, and money! Spence | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
| Jmd123 | June 10th, 2011, 5:01 pm | |
 Posts: 2611 | To finish the WZ quote: "...the sh*t has hit the fan!" Perhaps, Spence, it is because I have altogether too many other hobbies...my money and time gets spread around pretty good between books, compact discs, telescope eyepieces, cycling accessories, aquarium fish, guns, ammunition, cross-country skiis, kayaking gear...my life is in fact not more simple than yours, it's just spread around! If it makes you feel better, I did go through quite a few different flies one day trying to get the danged SUNFISH to hit at my favorite local warmwater pond...yeah, that's right, sunfish...however, it seemed to be a case of them getting pounded, because the next time around, well after the weekend during which said pounding had occured, they all were going nuts over a #10 black/grizzly Woolly Bugger, and so were the bass... Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| Oldredbarn | June 10th, 2011, 5:06 pm | |
Posts: 2608 | Boys & their toys! | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
| Jmd123 | June 10th, 2011, 5:15 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | Yeah, I've got my share...and of course want more...need a shorter rod & appropriately lightweight reel for those little tributary creeks...a new aquarium...odometer for my moutain bike...telescoping Measure Net for kayak fishing...Burt Bacharach & Richard Harris on CD...you see how I share your sickness??? Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| PaulRoberts | June 10th, 2011, 11:41 pm | |
 Posts: 1776 | It begins simply at first, like any disease: a Flick, or a Pobst. Then one day someone asks you "What fly should I use?" and your answer is an unintelligible stream of consciousness interspersed with bastardized Greek and Latin. Yet every contingency is accounted for, and correct. Next the local pastor, in sharing his favorite "attractor" pattern with you, induces phrases to well up from somewhere deep inside you: "You vomitous heathen! You make me sick!!" You find yourself hunched over your vice at 1AM, a veil of sweat forming over your furrowed brow, trying to affix a minute carefully shaped speck of material to a complex of feathers, fibers, and sundry other media of which the molecular structure is known to you! Suddenly, you look around, without your magnifying headset, and see what your life has become. Your wife and kids are gone, and you don't remember their names. The only thing in the fridge is a bottle of formalin. The dog is bald. The last straw is the recurring nightmare, the one in which you find a size 46 Uenoidean you have never seen before that, through your magnifying headset, has a dorsal thorax pattern that strongly resembles page 132 of Schweibert’s "Nymphs”! You realize then and there that it’s time to prioritize. You need the latest edition of Wiggins. | |
| Jmd123 | June 11th, 2011, 12:56 am | |
Posts: 2611 | Well, I'm divorced and my daughter lives with the ex...are you saying my cat should be wary of me? Uh-oh, here comes the Calico Trout Killer, velvety black and rusty brown, complete with whiskers for antennae and an abdomen of soft white underfur...maybe some shed claws for legs??? This reminds me of a thread on here some time ago in which I suggested cat whiskers would make good fly appendages such as legs, tails, etc. Somebody, I don't remember who, responded, "Whiskers belong on a cat!!" As if I was going to try to PULL them out of her! If I tried that I would therever after be referred to as "Three-Fingers Jonathon"! Uh, NO, I meant SHED whiskers..have a cat long enough and you'll find them, no problem... Jonathon P.S. Cali-cat and I took our first walk down to the river together today...there aren't many things more cute than having a cat follow you on a walk! Good thing she got her flea and tick treatment... | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| CapnBob | November 28th, 2011, 9:37 pm | |
 | Try a "Hair Wing Royal Trude", in a size 14 when nothing else is working. There is something about the "Royal" configuration, or maybe it's the golden pheasant tippet tail. All I know is they work for me when nothing else is happening. Here is a link to how I tie them... http://fishingwithflies.com/Hare-wingRoyalTrude.htm Cap'n Bob | |
| Sayfu | November 29th, 2011, 8:43 am | |
| Posts: 560 | Gary L., so I don't have to misspell his last name, had a great scientific reason for why the Royal patterns have withstood the test of time. I bring it up in school as my integrated fly fishing story approach to learning. If it interests anyone I will give the reason. | |
| CapnBob | November 29th, 2011, 6:48 pm | |
|
I'm interested in why. Cap'n Bob | |
| Sayfu | November 30th, 2011, 10:31 am | |
| Posts: 560 | Has to do with the spectum and ROY. G. BIV that students learned in 8th grade. The wave lengths go from long to short as you move through the spectrum...red being the longest wave length color, and violet/purple the shortest on the far end. Red is the first color to be filtered out in low light conditions, or in murky water with lots of particulate in it because of the long wave length can't penetrate as well. Green has a much shorter wave length, and is filtered out to a much less degree than red on cloudy days, shaded conditions, or water with lots of particulate in it. So when you fish the Royal combo of red and green, if you cast under the shaded bank/bushes, green becomes the fish attracting component in your fly, and red is enhanced in the lighted conditions, and the fish attracting color. Thus you have your bases covered in varying lt. and water conditions. And it makes sense to me coming from the salt water coast...salt water anglers use lures of pink, green, blue, all shorter wave length colors that show up better in deeper water. And the bass angler?..purple worms are popular in the murky waters they fish, and black is a contrast to murky water. | |
| Sayfu | November 30th, 2011, 10:32 am | |
| Posts: 560 | UUPS..popped in the "r" in spectrum toooo late! Wonder how many other grammaticals I made? "grrrr" | |
| PaulRoberts | November 30th, 2011, 12:26 pm | |
Posts: 1776 | Oooops... the red is the short end, violet the longer. | |
| Sayfu | November 30th, 2011, 3:41 pm | |
| Posts: 560 | Paul...no it is not. violet, pink, blue, down on the short end that penetrates better. | |
| PaulRoberts | November 30th, 2011, 4:40 pm | |
Posts: 1776 | Oh! That's right! I knew red was first to attenuate, but thought is was at the short end of the spectrum. | |
| Falsifly | November 30th, 2011, 4:42 pm | |
 Posts: 661 | Red is the first color to be filtered out in low light conditions, or in murky water with lots of particulate in it because of the long wave length can't penetrate as well. The depth penetration of color depends on the background space light color. Although it is true that the long-wavelength light (red) is filtered out first in oligotrophic type water i.e. clear water. It is not true of mesotrophic or dystrophic waters i.e. waters containing algae or brownish humic acid, respectively. In dystrophic water red will penetrate deeper that the shorter wavelength light (blue). However, I reserve the right to humbly accept correction. | |
| Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that." | ||
| Sayfu | November 30th, 2011, 5:47 pm | |
| Posts: 560 | And a whole new ball game can emerge for those wanting to utilize luminescent colors...colors that emit their own light, and do not depend on natural light. They can be energized, and become very visible. Fluorescent also adds an entirely different visibility concept. Fluorescent red, I do believe, is the most visible of the fluorescents. And there are those colors available to the fly tier. Steelheader's, and myself included, use to energize steelhead "flies" drifted along the bottom with flash bulbs, and flash lights when fishing after dark. That came off the top of my head, so I could accept correction as well. | |
| CapnBob | December 2nd, 2011, 12:30 am | |
| I have this funny feeling that when discussing "spectrum", and how it applies to what color the fish sees, is related directly to conditions such as: time of day, ambient conditions (ie; cloudy, sunny, raining, snowing, morning or evening light), water depth, temperature, water clarity and etc. And that's assuming that fish can even see the colors of the spectrum (I don't know about "rods" and other stuff about eyeballs). Why not tie/fish everything in neutral/natural shades, since that is likely what the fish sees anyway, and the impression (delivery, size, profile, action) of something to eat is what's on their mind and most likely to trigger a strike anyway. Of course, that still does not answer the mystery why the "Royal" configuration is so successful and utilized in so many patterns. Cap'n Bob | |
| Entoman | December 2nd, 2011, 1:49 am | |
 Posts: 2604 | There is solid scientific evidence that fish see color, and much the same as we do. The main difference is that, like many wild creatures, they are able to perceive electromagnetic waves in a little broader spectrum than what we call "visible light". However, the problem with LaFontaine's "Theory of Attraction" regarding color is that it's built on the premise that the most visible color in a given situation is the one the fish will prefer. I don't think the fish "see" it that way.:) I noticed in his book Trout Flies; Proven Patterns (aka Fly Tiers Gone Wild), that the "clincher" for him was a late September outing on Rock Creek, Montana. While earlier in the evening the predictable list of flies (Humpies, Trudes, and Wulffs) failed miserably in his quest for large fish, at last light his spectrum based Double-Wing design (properly selected to match the conditions) knocked them dead. It was his orange version (brown & burnt orange) in size 10. The pattern is basically a down-wing palmer for those of you unfamiliar with the design. Now perhaps it's just coincidence (and ironic that he didn't consider the possibility), but Rock Creek has a decent population of Dicosmoecus (Fall Caddis) that happen to come back to the river for a drink or to oviposit precisely at that time of year, and right at dark. Hmmm.... Quite a few years back I bought a gizmo (designed & marketed for serious bass anglers) for lake fishing that could tell you what color was most visible for any given time of day, weather, or water type/clarity. You simply lowered the sensor to the depth you wanted to fish and it metered the most visible color. All you had to do was pick the streamer or wooly bugger that matched and you had it dialed. Didn't work out that way in practice... Man, did I try to prove the gizmo right so as not to feel foolish for forking out the price of a good reel!:) | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Oldredbarn | December 2nd, 2011, 10:05 am | |
Posts: 2608 | However, the problem with LaFontaine's "Theory of Attraction" regarding color is that it's built on the premise that the most visible color in a given situation is the one the fish will prefer. I don't think the fish "see" it that way.:) but Rock Creek has a decent population of Dicosmoecus (Fall Caddis) that happen to come back to the river for a drink or to oviposit precisely at that time of year So Kurt. What I think I hear you saying is we should, as the good scientists we are, never just believe what we read...:) I like the way you think mister! Though I must admit I'm attracted to the mystery and not too sure how much I really want to know...Hmmm. Do I believe that last sentence or not? My father was a lay minister (we used to say that meant he laid around all day ;)), and he used to worry about me during my university years...I think he thought I was learning too much of the wrong things...:) Another gizmo!?! Are you trying to end up like me? Bent over like Quasimoto?! :) I told you before, re-read Datus Proper's, "What the Trout Said", learn trout-ese and problem solved...;) You want to know what trout prefer...Just ask them...:) Spence | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
| Jmd123 | December 2nd, 2011, 5:20 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | Fish can see color, and there's one very simple way to prove it without any experiments: Fish ARE colorful! If they couldn't see color, why would they change colors when the breeding season approaches? Or be different colors, so they can recognize members of their own species? Now, white-tailed deer can NOT see color (which is why you can wear hunter orange and still not be spotted by them), but then again, they're not colorful animals, rather being shades of brown, grey, and white... Which then begs the question, what about minnows and other grey/black/white/silver fish species? Or dull brown ones? Here again, many of these change colors, generally to shades of red, orange, or yellow, during the breeding season. Fish wouldn't BE colorful if they themselves couldn't see their own colors! Now whether they see them the SAME as we do, well, there's some reasearch projects to be done there for sure... Jonathon P.S. Fish that can't see very well, such as many catfish species (check out the size of the eyes on cats compared to most sport fish species), tend to be dull colors and stay that way even when breeding... | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
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