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> > wet flies vs. dry flies--a matter of taste?
| CaseyP | June 6th, 2009, 7:03 pm | |
 Posts: 653 | thanks to this forum, dry fly fishing is getting more fun for me. went off on a week's jaunt recently and someone kindly told me the names of some bugs that might hatch. looked them up here to find out what color to tie my fly--and the result worked better than i could have imagined. thanks for the great photos! so now the clever little devils will come up and splash all over my nicely colored flies, but they don't seem to connect very well. day before yesterday i floated 6 different flies over two adjacent fish and got a grand total of 12 misses all in a row. the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission must have been training these two so that visitors like myself would 1) know there were fish in there and 2) be happy that they were at least rising. later, using wets, i had a much better hookup rate. (see the Yorkshire flies thread for info on those. they're really nifty.) so the question: do fish bite wet flies harder? we're talking the usual pressured picene population here. or do wet flies look more realistic if you're a trout? | |
| "You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra | ||
| GONZO | June 6th, 2009, 7:57 pm | |
Site Editor "Bear Swamp," PAPosts: 1681 | Casey, on the unsuccessful dry-fly fishing:Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright; Sorry, Casey, I'm sure you know that one by heart. I thought I'd try to lighten the mood, which has been getting a little tense of late. ;) Many fly fishers love the dry and will fish it at any opportunity. Hatches that produce rising fish are obviously among the best opportunities. This affection for the dry is easy to understand because the fishing can be delightful when things work out. However, the consequence is that many fish see (and get caught on) many dries in the course of a hatch, and they tend to get suspicious pretty fast. Splashy, half-hearted rises can be one result of their suspicious approach to the dry. I think your fish were just seeing a lot more dries than wets. On the other hand, we don't always recognize all of the refusals and half-hearted passes at the wets as easily as we do with dries. In addition, when there is a bit of tension on the line, as in a classic wet-fly swing, the fish virtually hook themselves. With the dry, it can be easy to strike a little too fast or too slow--either we are too twitchy on the trigger finger for the way the fish are taking the fly, or we react too late or with too much slack in the line to connect effectively. Keep at it, and I'm sure you'll soon have an opportunity to recite the "Casey's Revenge" version of that poem. I'll bet you know those lines as well, but here's the fishing version, especially for you: Oh! somewhere in this favored land dark clouds may hide the sun; | |
| Martinlf | June 7th, 2009, 8:04 am | |
 Moderator Palmyra PAPosts: 3233 | Hi Casey, I'm convinced that some fish are difficult to catch on typical dry fly presentations after they've seen enough of them. I've seen fish refuse dead drifted flies who would only take when a fly was twitched or slightly skittered, and I've seen fish that would actually blow the flies up out of the water--I assume with a reverse inhale--when they spotted a fake. But for me, mostly, it is work, work, work, on getting the drift right, and for pressured fish, finding something that looks edible that they have not already seen. Can you imagine the fish's perspective? They eat many bugs that are tasty, and filling--but they also encounter some that sting and drag them around until some great gargantuan god reaches down from the dreadful air above and sets them free from the nasty insect. They learn to avoid the bugs that sting, and to be angry when they float over. What better way to disuade those bugs than to blow them up? If it's not that, as Gonzo said, they strike short or turn away at the last minute. But even with suspicious fish sometimes persistence will pay off. Sometimes multiple drifts will result in one that works. If not, change your fly, or as one experienced fisherman advised me, "move your feet." A change of position can help you get a better drift at times. I was fishing side by side with another Troutnut one day when he finally asked me to have a go at a fish he had been covering. A hair taller that he is, I was able to wade to a deeper spot, which allowed a slightly different drift. The fish rose and was landed. | |
| "He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell | ||
| Falsifly | June 7th, 2009, 10:29 am | |
 Posts: 661 | Casey, it’s been my experience that this is not an uncommon situation, and without doubt, pressured piscine, are the worst offenders. I have had countless days of the dreaded-dry-denial. And, as if that isn’t bad enough, I can remember one day in particular, where I witnessed at least a dozen fish, actually take the fly, and I never hooked ONE. I spent that whole evening reflecting on my ability as a fly fisherman, and came up with the only explanation that made sense to me. S#!t happens. Some days you strike-out, and some days you hit a home run.do fish bite wet flies harder? My guess is that fish have the ability to bite as hard as they can, and to any degree they choose. Some may equate the ease with which fish are hooked on a swinging wet, or any fly moving in fast water, to that of a harder bite, but I only see it as a more aggressive strike. I couldn’t agree more with Gonzo’s statement when there is a bit of tension on the line, as in a classic wet-fly swing, the fish virtually hook themselves.Never thought about how hard they bite and I haven’t a clue. do wet flies look more realistic if you're a trout? The fact that one can, at times, be more successful with a wet over a dry, in my opinion, cannot be answered by, what we perceive, as one looking more realistic than the other, to the trout. What’s to say that the dry being repeatedly refused, doesn’t look to the trout, as a real insect, but one that bites back? | |
| Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that." | ||
| CaseyP | June 7th, 2009, 10:39 am | |
Posts: 653 | I've seen fish that would actually blow the flies up out of the water--I assume with a reverse inhale--when they spotted a fake.--Martinlf that might explain the hilarious sight a shaft of sunlight gave me one very early morning: as my ant drifted by, the trout would confront it, hasten its departure with a sideways slap of the head, and return with a huff to his lie. knowing no better, i persisted. after six or seven swats, the trout took drastic measures and bit the thing. another day, i was victimized by a school of trout that would try to sink the fly before biting: the real deal don't pop back up. finally the floatant wore out and one trout bit harder. I thought I'd try to lighten the mood--Gonzo oh, heavens yes--give me enough beer and i'll recite the silly thing with dramatic florishes. and it's not haiku! y'know, they say that every time you go to a baseball game you see something you never did before (this is true.) the same is certainly true of fly fishing for trout! Some days you strike-out, and some days you hit a home run.--Falsifly you're right! who can explain a streak--in either sport? and yet that's what we spend hours doing. ;-) | |
| "You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra | ||
| GONZO | June 7th, 2009, 10:56 am | |
Site Editor "Bear Swamp," PAPosts: 1681 | Yep, no matter how skilled you become with the dry, it's a pretty sure bet that you'll still have such days from time to time. And really, when you encounter trout that have learned to play with a dry fly like a circus seal with a beach ball, you've got to give them your grudging respect, no matter how frustrating they are. Sometimes, as in any sport where your opponent has a skillful game, you just have to tip your cap and say "Well played." You can learn to love those fish. | |
| Softhackle | June 7th, 2009, 3:59 pm | |
 Site Editor Wellsville, NYPosts: 540 | Hi Casey, My experience tells me that they don't hit wets any harder. I think the tightness of the line, in most wet fly fishing, makes the takes feel harder. For the most part, dry flies are fished on a slacker line. I feel one actually sets the hook. With wet flies, the fish practically hooks itself. This is not to say I've not had some bumps on wets and I missed hooking them. I have, but good hook-up usually occur with wets. As the others have encouraged--keep at it. You know me, I fish wingless wets, mostly, but every so often a well presented dry is wonderful fishing. Mark | |
| "I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html | ||
| Martinlf | June 8th, 2009, 7:16 pm | |
Moderator Palmyra PAPosts: 3233 | Hey Mark, I've missed more fish on wets than I'd like to admit. I read, I think in a book by Gary Borger, that it helps to hold a little loop of line and release it when a fish hits a wet. I tried this a month or so ago when fishing wets and it seemed to work. I'd release the loop then raise the rod tip. Do you ever try this? If so, does it work for you? If not, what's your method of hooking fish on wet flies? By the way, I thought you'd be gratified to know that I caught fish on wets that day that I couldn't catch with any other method. It was fun. | |
| "He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell | ||
| Flatstick96 | June 8th, 2009, 9:05 pm | |
 | DISCLAIMER: I don't fish dries nearly as often as many of the others here, so take this with a grain of salt... A few years ago I was reading a discussion about this same topic on another forum; a guy there said that his big problem missing fish on dries turned out to be setting the hook too early. What he did to combat that tendency is this: As soon as he saw a strike, he forced himself to pause long enough to say "Hello, trout!" before setting the hook. It seemed silly, but one day when I was fishing dries and missing a lot of fish, I thought back to that thread...and started muttering "Hello, trout!" each time I'd see a strike - and I did start hooking up quite a bit more often. | |
| Martinlf | June 9th, 2009, 7:02 am | |
Moderator Palmyra PAPosts: 3233 | Yes, Lloyd reminds us that the British say, "God save the queen," but we can say, "Hail to the chief," before striking. "Hello trout" works too. Little trout often require a quick strike, because they are apt to spit the fly guickly, but the big boys, especially if you're fishing downstream, need more time to close and start down. I remember getting into some smaller fish one day after catching several bigger ones, and having to speed up the hookset a bit to hook them. | |
| "He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell | ||
| Softhackle | June 9th, 2009, 7:46 am | |
Site Editor Wellsville, NYPosts: 540 | Hi Louis, It seems that my method doesn't require it because of the way I fish. For the most part, I cast the fly far enough upstream to help it sink to the depth I want, then mend the line if necessary. When it reaches the spot where the fish is, or suppose to be, I check the rod if necessary, letting the fly swing. While doing this, I use a hand-twist retrieve, jiggle the rod tip a bit. I usually keep the rod tip low to the water. As the fly swings down river and the line begins to straighten out, I continue to retrieve using the hand-twist and jiggle. As the fly comes in closer, I may raise the rod gently. Then recast. This method has proven itself over and over. The fish usually hit pretty hard, and often hook themselves. The loop idea sounds like a good plan IF you are having trouble hooking up with wets.  Here's one I took Saturday morning on a cream colored flymph fished just under the surface. In this case the wingless wet was fished almost like a dry fly, but below the surface. I actually treated it with floatant and saw the fish come up to take the fly. Stretched out, the fish was about 18". Mark | |
| "I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html | ||
| Martinlf | June 9th, 2009, 9:27 am | |
Moderator Palmyra PAPosts: 3233 | That's a beauty. I've experimented a few times, sometimes by necessity or happenstance with a dead drifted fly just below the surface. The fish do respond well, and it's very thrilling--perhaps even more so than with a dry fly to see the fish rise up and take the fly underwater. | |
| "He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell | ||
| Falsifly | June 9th, 2009, 12:36 pm | |
Posts: 661 | I read, I think in a book by Gary Borger, that it helps to hold a little loop of line and release it when a fish hits a wet. Louis, I believe that the above mentioned technique is called a slip strike. I also believe that the purpose is to protect a light tippet from breaking when trout hit aggressively on a tight line, such as a swinging fly. I have used the same technique while fishing very small midge pupa and dries on 8x. Often times the fish will hit these little buggers so hard that a tight line results in a broken tippet. | |
| Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that." | ||
| GONZO | June 9th, 2009, 2:04 pm | |
Site Editor "Bear Swamp," PAPosts: 1681 | Casey has prompted a useful discussion of striking, both the strike of the fish and our response. All of the comments are excellent. Wet-fly mavens like Mark develop an intuitive feel through long experience, and I'm sure that his response to the take is mostly automatic. Sometimes it is no strike at all, sometimes it's just a tightening of the line, and sometimes (particularly with an upstream dead-drift) more is required. Whether we are fishing wet, dry, nymph, or streamer, changes in technique or situation often require us to adjust our response to the take. Louis, Duane, and Allan have mentioned some of those various responses and tactics. Often, after I have been honing a hair-trigger response to the way quick little trib fish take a dry or the split-second ejection of a nymph by heavily pressured fish, I have to remember to slow down and be more patient when big fish take a dry fly deliberately--especially, as Louis says, on a downstream delivery. In the same way, I can remember having some difficulty training myself to just tighten the line when fishing midges or Tricos on fine tippets. Regarding the fine tippet/small fly fishing that Falsifly loves, I was wondering: Has anyone ever used a "bungie" attached between leader and line in order to allow more forgiveness or margin for error when our strike is a bit heavy-handed or to cushion sudden surges against a light tippet? Allan has probably honed his reflexes with the midge fishing in much the same way that Mark has with wets. For the rest of us, however, this might be a helpful crutch in either situation--especially when we are compelled to switch techniques abruptly. A bungie is just a short (6-8") piece of strong but stretchy material that is looped between the line connection and the leader butt. Because it is easily attached or removed, the adjustment takes only a moment or two onstream. | |
| Softhackle | June 9th, 2009, 5:47 pm | |
Site Editor Wellsville, NYPosts: 540 | I've heard of them and the effectiveness of them in the situation you describe. Gonz, but I've never used them. I fish dries as well, and perhaps my wet fly experience helps me with my dry fly hook up. In addition, when dry fly fishing I try to put some S curves in the line and leader. To me this lengthens the time between the fisherman's response and when the hook is set. Different things work for different fishermen. I guess it is good to try different things to see which works the best for you. Mark | |
| "I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html | ||
| Martinlf | June 10th, 2009, 7:07 pm | |
Moderator Palmyra PAPosts: 3233 | Hey Lloyd, I did fish bungie leaders one season, and remember a big rainbow testing a 7X tippet without breaking it. I found the bungies to be a bit heavy and cumbersome, so I skipped them the next time I tied up leaders and never went back. A rep. at Rio told me they had the technology to make the bungie right into the leader, but that it was too expensive to mass produce. That would be neat if they could figure that out--but I haven't seen much discussion of this recently, so it may have fallen by the wayside. | |
| "He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell | ||
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