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| JSY | June 24th, 2021, 3:07 pm | |
 Posts: 4 | Mayfly ID any ideas. It came from the Smith River in SW VA which is a tailwater. Hatched late afternoon. Thanks for any help, great site.Credit Woolley Bugger/ Keith Kolischak for the photos.  | |
| Sacred cows make the best hamburger | ||
| Troutnut | June 25th, 2021, 4:38 pm | |
 Administrator Bellevue, WAPosts: 2737 | Definitely family Heptageniidae. It looks to me like the genus Stenonema (many species in which were classified in Maccaffertium for a while and are still listed there on this site), but I'm not familiar enough with the species in your area to identify it any further at a glance. | |
| Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D. Troutnut and salmonid ecologist | ||
| Taxon | June 25th, 2021, 5:24 pm | |
 Site Editor Royse City, TXPosts: 1350 | Hi Steve- In order to carry Jason's ID one step further, I believe this female subimago to be Maccaffertium vicarium. However, I've got a question for you. Do you know the identity of the female imago in your profile photo? And if not, do you know where the photo was taken? | |
| Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com | ||
| JSY | June 25th, 2021, 6:13 pm | |
Posts: 4 | Thanks for your replies. I thought it might be Maccaffertium, I would never try to identify anything to the species level. I know just enough to be dangerous. BTW, do you have any suggestions for books or sites for the SE for me. The old copy of Instant Mayfly ID Guide that I have is badly out of date. Great site, keep up the good work, your help is greatly appreciated. Roger I took that photo a few years ago. I took it while fishing the Davidson River in western NC (Freestone). It was late May and I saw the spinners every afternoon for 3 or 4 days. Never did see the hatch, at night maybe? I have no idea what it is. I have never seen another mayfly with those wing markings. I have seen it several times since then in late May and early June, but never anywhere in western NC or TN but the Davidson River. Any ideas what it might be? | |
| Sacred cows make the best hamburger | ||
| Taxon | June 25th, 2021, 9:31 pm | |
Site Editor Royse City, TXPosts: 1350 | Any ideas what it might be? Yes, I believe it to be Siphlonurus mirus. | |
| Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com | ||
| JSY | June 25th, 2021, 10:21 pm | |
Posts: 4 | Thanks Roger, we had been calling them grey drakes. It's always nice to have experts like you to ID them to a specific genus and species rather than just a common name.I looked at your site tonight too, it's very nice. | |
| Sacred cows make the best hamburger | ||
| Taxon | June 25th, 2021, 11:31 pm | |
Site Editor Royse City, TXPosts: 1350 | BTW, do you have any suggestions for books or sites for the SE for me. The old copy of Instant Mayfly ID Guide that I have is badly out of date. There is no reason to change authors. I really like The Mayfly Guide: Quick and easy steps to identifying nymphs, duns, and spinners by Al Caucci. It is a compact spiral-bound pocket guide to the North American mayflies of most interest to fly fishers. The photos in the index, which are grouped by nymphs and duns/spinners, is particularly handy for purpose of visual identification, and most of the taxonomic updates are included in his rewrite of his and Bob Nastasi's Instant Mayfly Identification Guide. | |
| Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com | ||
| Troutnut | June 26th, 2021, 12:32 am | |
Administrator Bellevue, WAPosts: 2737 | FYI Roger, a recent paper reclassified the Maccaffertium back into Stenonema, as there really wasn't clear evidence that they comprise a separate monophyletic group. Here's the citation: Zembrzuski, D.C. and Anderson, F.A. 2018. Clarifying the phylogenetic relationships and taxonomy of Stenonema, Stenacron and Maccaffertium, three common eastern North American mayfly genera. Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 128: 212-220. I do think vicarium is a good guess. I haven't updated the genus taxonomy yet on this site because I'm working on a major upgrade to the entire system. I made the change on the test platform for the new version though. | |
| Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D. Troutnut and salmonid ecologist | ||
| JSY | June 26th, 2021, 4:15 am | |
Posts: 4 | Thanks for the up date | |
| Sacred cows make the best hamburger | ||
| Taxon | June 27th, 2021, 3:39 pm | |
Site Editor Royse City, TXPosts: 1350 | FYI Roger, a recent paper reclassified the Maccaffertium back into Stenonema ... Thanks, Jason. Once Mayfly Central revises their taxonomy to reflect the contentions of that paper, I shall follow suit. :-) | |
| Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com | ||
| Wiflyfisher | July 2nd, 2021, 6:59 am | |
| Wisconsin Posts: 663 | FYI Roger, a recent paper reclassified the Maccaffertium back into Stenonema, as there really wasn't clear evidence that they comprise a separate monophyletic group. No, not again!!!! My guess "Stenacron ", or "vicarium". But, I generally don't see vicarium duns body color that orangey, at least on my Wisconsin waters. | |
| John S. https://WiFlyFisher.com | ||
| Troutnut | July 2nd, 2021, 1:01 pm | |
Administrator Bellevue, WAPosts: 2737 | Thanks, Jason. Once Mayfly Central revises their taxonomy to reflect the contentions of that paper, I shall follow suit. :-) Fair enough. It appears their rationale for not making that revision seems to be rooted in a technicality of the way the changes were reported, rather than any dispute about their phylogenetic validity. Excerpted from their 14 January 2020 statement: Several genera included in our current lists are recognized either as subgenera or as junior synonyms of other genera in Burian SK. 2019. Chapter 13 Ephemeroptera. Pp. 263-339. In: R. W. Merritt, K.W. Cummins, and M.B. Berg. (eds.). An Introduction to the Aquatic Insects of North America., 5th Edition. Kendall Hunt Publishing, Company, Dubuque, Iowa, 1480 pp. However, the new or reinstated genus-species combinations that would result from these synonymies are not listed in this chapter. Genus-species combinations are listed on Mayfly Central only if they have been explicitly stated in recent, reputable, peer-reviewed publications and only if they follow the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature. The synonymies referenced above created some unpublished combinations in Afghanurus, Stenonema, and Tricorythodes. If only published combinations in these genera were listed here, then inconsistent genus concepts would be followed in the North and Central American lists. Therefore, at this time, we are not listing species of Ableptemetes, Homoleptohyphes, Tricoryhyphes, and Asioplax in Tricorythodes; we are not listing species of Maccaffertium in Stenonema; and we are not listing species of Ecdyonurus and Nixe in Afghanurus. The reclassification of Maccaffertium back into Stenonema was in a peer-reviewed journal as I cited above, but as I understand it Mayfly Central isn't making the change because the paper didn't explicitly list the revised genus-species name combinations one-by-one. That seems like an odd thing to nitpick, but I suppose they have their reasons. Nevertheless, they're not disputing the science behind the change, just the procedure. The change was good enough for Burian's chapter in Merritt, Cummins, & Berg, so it's good enough for me! Plus Stenonema rolls off the tongue so much easier! | |
| Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D. Troutnut and salmonid ecologist | ||
| Martinlf | July 21st, 2021, 10:01 pm | |
 Moderator Palmyra PAPosts: 3233 | Interesting. And I'd concur with Jason that Stenonema is smoother sounding and more elegant than Maccaffertium . | |
| "He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell | ||
| Jmd123 | July 22nd, 2021, 5:32 am | |
 Posts: 2611 | Damnit! Do I have to change my Indiana reports now? I found what I called Maccaffertium! Damned taxonomists... ;oD Jonathon P.S. Actually, Stenonema has a rating in the EPA's Rapid Bioassessment Protocols and Maccaffertium doesn't...so those can count now? | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
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